The Christians dying in Nigeria are being killed by Muslims. The grooming gangs in England are primarily Pakistani Muslims, and it is lower class English girls they prey upon. Muslims in Western countries are praying in the streets to show their dominance; praying in the streets isn’t a normal Muslim practice. Muslims in Dearborn, Michigan, are broadcasting the Muslim call to prayer five times a day.
Brigitte Gabrielle of Act For America knows firsthand what happens when Muslims take over a country. The moderate Muslims turn against their former Christian friends, going along with the radicals. Her family in Lebanon hid for years in a bomb shelter in their back yard when the Muslims took over there.
Of course God loves Muslims and wants to save them. Many are converting to Christianity. But God also does not expect us to fool ourselves about their intentions. It is a religion that inspired its adherents to conquer and Islamize all the previously Christian lands in the Middle East and beyond.
I think the authors were clear in their caveat. So let’s say they answered honestly based on their experience (which, btw, mirrors my own, working with Muslim partners in primarily the Gulf), would you say the problem is Islam or culture?
I wasn’t saying they weren’t being honest about their experiences. But their experiences (and yours) do not trump the facts about Islam. I had Muslim neighbors, and they were very nice. But Brigitte Gabriel’s Muslim neighbors were very nice too—until Muslims took over previously Christian Lebanon. The nice Muslims may not want to kill you, but they won’t stop the radicals from killing you. Islam is a culture.
Thank you for your reply. Not that this is particularly top of mind in my daily life, but I find these diametrically opposing images of Islam confounding. But then, I get even more confounded facing the atrocities of many Christian brethren, past and present. The only way I can explain it is by culture; neither stale nor preordained, but perhaps the most challenging to plan and ply according to one’s wish. So, the best I can hope for is for everyone to take a deep breath, and hope that past assimilations to the west is an indication of what to come.
I think we have to go back to origins rather than to what has been done in the name of a religion. Christians look to Jesus. What did He say? How did He live? If people call themselves Christians but behave toward others in ways opposed to how He lived and what He said, they aren’t behaving as Christians. Compare Jesus to Mohammad, how he lived, what he said. As far as I understand, radical Muslims are living out what their founder taught.
Lots of mixed opinions on this article. I found it enlightening. As someone who seems to be growing anti-islam by the day, I think the Holy Spirit led me to this article. I think when we approach anything with a hostile, negative mindset we allow Satan victory over our thoughts. Our thoughts become tainted by his deception. Because these thoughts and feelings are not of God. I read another article this morning that said “everything we do, no matter how pure, is tainted with the stench of sin. It’s the reality of living in a fallen, broken world”. Like the writer of that statement I too am digesting those words. Am I dressing up my dislike of Islam as righteousness when it’s really self righteousness 🤔? I think I am. We are not Saviors. There is only one that transforms hearts. The bible tells us to judge others is to condemn ourselves. This was a great article! I pray for our Christian brothers and sisters preaching the gospel in hostile territories. They face death and persecution by being lights in this world. May I be humble and brave enough to share the gospel with anyone God puts in front of me 🙏🏼
C. S. Lewis called Islam the greatest of the Christian heresies. It’s not wrong to hate what denies Christ. (They accept Him as a prophet but deny His saving power.) Hatred of an ideology that holds so many in its thrall and treats people so cruelly is not sinful. God hates sin, and we should too.
As I made clear in the comment thread, God loves individual Muslims and wants them saved. But we do not have to extend our love to the ideology holding them captive.
Ditto precisely. Unfortunately, they skated right by some of the really knotty issues of free speech, even questioning why we would want to promote western values? What would a moderate Muslim do if someone burns the Quran? Or draw a cartoon of Mohammad? If the authors can’t defend basic free speech values then they’re not really doing much to solve this problem.
I haven't really studied that issue. Was that something that the Church did on an official basis, or were the pogroms more done by certain individuals who were not acting like Christ?
Neither one of which is Christian practice. Honestly, with the history of people who have done absolute horrors while wearing the name of Christ, it is a wonder that anyone seriously considers Christianity as a legitimate religion or wishes to convert to it.
Or dishonest. I doubt they have ever visited a Muslim country. Perhaps the text is AI generated, since none of the "eight missionaries" apparently have names...
"So, I reached out to a missionary who follows my page, who I know has spent years in ministry to Muslims in Palestine. She, along with 7 other missionaries in MENA (Middle East and North Africa) nations, was kind enough to put together a document responding to common questions".
Missionaries are all about putting themselves on the line, so why this strange reticence? Doesn't check out.
Sorry, but speaking as a Christian this article is naive and foolish in the extreme. Here in Britain we are seeing whole towns and cities being taken over by Muslims, who are meanwhile in the process of infiltrating the political and judicial systems to work them in their favour. The truth about Islam is that it is really nothing more than sacralised tribalism with a view to ultimate political domination of the planet. Within that purview, literally ANYTHING is admissible so long as it further promotes the cause of Islam. This includes the systemic rape and abuse of vulnerable young girls, as we have now been seeing for decades across the (dis-)United Kingdom.
Of course, all of this is not to say that ALL Muslims are nasty pieces of work, or to deny that they can be reached with the gospel. But as the Bible says, let us be 'wise as serpents and innocent as doves'. The whole of the Middle East and North Africa was at one time the epicentre of the Christian world. Then the murderous Muslims came and took over, threatening to kill everyone who did not submit to their will. This same dynamic is at play in our world today, and particularly as the West has foolishly opened up its borders to the world.
You don't need to hate Muslims to realise there is a real existential threat at play here. Unless American is very careful, it could be become just as desperate as Europe presently is on account of 'the religion of peace'. As we have witnessed here, it doesn't take very long at all to get in a serious amount of trouble. All you need to do is close your eyes to the horrible demonic reality of the situation.
How exactly? By raping thousands of young girls? By conducting repeated acts of terror? By marrying first cousins to each other? By female genital mutilation? By widely disrupting civic life with mass anti-semitic marches and protests? By bullying and attacking Jews? By covering women head to foot in black robes? I'm truly interested to know your answer.
Not exactly, no. And not only have you blatantly ignored all the charges against the 'religion of peace', you haven't even begun to explain how Muslims are 'civilising' the UK.
So, opposing those who oppose the mass importation of those who are actively destroying Britain is, in fact, an act of generosity towards Britain?! Is that what you are saying?
“The second thing we want you to know is that Muslims are not out to get you.” Tell that to the Texas family who lost several family members to a Muslim father’s honor killing spree. It’s time to get real about Islam, especially in regard to desire for hegemony and violence towards Jews.
That's Zionism, which is not the same as Judaism. Growing up in Cleveland, Ohio, I used to cut lawns for people down our street. Our Jewish neighbor, who escaped Poland before the holocaust, but lost family in it, used to give me a lemonade after I cut his lawn. I remember one time the TV was on and coverage of the 1973 Yom Kippur war was on and he said "I wish they'd never created Israel. Jews had a homeland already, the USA."
Having been a missionary myself, I’m hesitant to tell people living in a particular country I’ve never been to that I know the people better than they do (responding to some of the comments here).
I moved Stateside a few years ago and have been working at an international student ministry that is highly involved with MENA students. Some of them have become my dearest friends, and a number of them have even chosen to follow Jesus! So, so many of them have shared experiences with me that match exactly what this post is sharing. They even keep asking me to visit their countries and listing people back in their countries who would love to host me—even though one country in particular that I’ve been invited to multiple times is literally impossible for an American to travel to right now!
Another friend (from a country who spells the name “Mohammad” and not “Mohammed”—referencing the post) was beaten nearly to death by government officials for refusing to acknowledge the Muslim God, and another friend who chose to follow Jesus had to escape as a refugee to a different Asian country in fear of his life. I once attended a baptism of a Christian who couldn’t let us record or take photos of the event due to potential backlash back home.
It’s true that most of the people that my friends have encountered in their home countries are incredibly generous and would LOVE to open their homes to foreigners who might happen to be Christians. It’s also true that the extremists and those who pledge themselves to following the violent verses of the Quran are ruthless in their cruelty. Those two facts are not mutually exclusive. I think the best way to understand Muslim culture is to befriend Muslims and ask them questions about their cultures. That would require Christians to go out and show Gospel love to Muslims, though—something that many Westerners are too afraid to do. It’s a shame.
I do think that the authors of the article said that they knew Muslims in certain countries and that they know that they do not know ALL Muslims from all countries
Two things can be true at once. There can be places with peaceful coexistence and there can be places where there isn’t. If someone dies of cancer, we don’t say it can’t be cured. We say that was a particular case. We need to avoid blaming all Muslims for the sins of other Muslims. We don’t do that with white people. When a Christian killed Muslims in New Zealand, we didn’t blame other Christians. When the Norwegian shooter killed all those students in the name of radical Christianity, we didn’t blame all Christians.
Things are complex and nuanced and grey and messy. But we don’t fight flesh and blood, but principalities. We are called to love our enemies. We are called to preach the gospel. The fruit of the Spirit does not say anything about anger at Muslims. Jesus came to save the world, not to condemn it. Yet, the application of these verses seems to stop at Muslims.
We forgot that the early church was terribly persecuted. The political leaders condemned Christians. The locals killed Christians. They responded in love. They prayed for the leaders persecuting them.
I specifically serve a Muslim minority group because God has called me to love them and share the gospel with them. I think that is probably a more Biblical response to the issue of Islam than writing vitriolic comments on Substack. But maybe I’m wrong.
Western values are...making tons of money, being prideful, unrestrained sex even outside of marriage, greed, seeking comfort, etc, etc. The stats on these things are absolutely no different for secular Americans than for those who claim to be Christian.
Western values are fluctuating and are as much secular and atheistic as they are Christian, pay attention to the culture around you instead of some fantasy of western Christian hegemony.
Hurricanes fluctuate massively, we can still identify them.
They (western values) are still far, far closer to a known and identifiable body of Something, than they are a formless, nameless fog of Anything.
You correctly pointed out several of their attributes already.
The author’s claimed ignorance is worrying if honest; infuriating if feigned; odious if deliberate; and malevolent if truly disingenuous.
God calling us to love our neighbors individually, does not absolve us from the responsibility to examine their historical behavior realistically, and act appropriately.
While I am grateful that the missionary authors of the piece have found warm connections with individual Muslims (as I have in my life), like a scriptural verse taken in context of a chapter, and chapter in context of its book— this writing takes place in the context of 1400 years of very real history.
Perhaps the authors have a splinter in their eye, while I write squinting around the plank in mine.
More importantly however, Youre also guilty of taking Islamic extremists out of context to characterize Islamic culture as a whole. They’ve built empires, produced works of art, mathematics, and philosophy to rival the traditions of the west.
It isn’t clear where western culture is headed any more than where Islamic culture is headed in terms of their values. In practice though, Muslims are far more likely to uphold the conservative values Christian’s espouse than American voters are as a whole.
Christian’s like to ignore that the product of their philosophical tradition is as much nihilism as it is modern Catholicism or evangelicalism. Just like eastern cultures products vary from existential Islam to Eastern Orthodoxy.
Your characterization of Muslims lacks nuance and perspective. Anthropology when reduced to slogans and pithy baseless arguments is at best ignorance and at worst thinly veiled racism; things that the west does exceptionally well.
“Amazing, Every word of what you just said is wrong.”
Leaving aside the fact that I have minor to major disagreements with literally every sentence you just wrote, I’ll respond to what I think is at the heart of this:
Being bound and determined to reject the greatness of your own inherited culture because you cannot stomach the stains born by the hands of men who could not remain spotless while building it for your benefit, will not endear you to a culture that will place a boot on your neck the second they have the power to do so.
-Not a true concern in the US, but far beyond a hypothetical in Europe-
You, and people who you temporarily agree with politically or socially, are not better people for being reflexively accepting of, or at least willing to provide immediate false equivalency to anything that is not your own culture.
It is not pithy, phobic, baseless, racist, and certainly not ignorant to look at the results of population level adherence to Islamic doctrine since the establishment of the Caliphate and be critical of Christians who act wise as doves and as harmless as serpents in their attempts to chide the sheep as they welcome the wolves.
From Mecca and Medina, to Yarmuke, Jerusalem, Iberia, Vienna, and Constantinople, with a thousand battlegrounds in-between; there is a pattern that repeats itself when Muslims take the tenets of their faith seriously.
Of course Muslims produce art (with no graven image, of course), and love their children, and cook delicious meals for themselves and strangers. They are as precious in the sight of God as you or I.
But for every Imam preaching peaceful assimilation, every “radical” cleric has more scripture, and more examples from Mohamed's own life, to justify a mode of behavior that gives transcendent license to the most barbarically tribal impulses. The rewards of Paradise are sufficient testament to this by themselves alone. This is an inherent problem to the ideology of Islam itself. Compounded by the fact that revisionist Sharia scholars can attempt to say what they will, but Apostasy awaits those who would even suggest that theirs is not the Final and Unalterable Revelation.
Exercising discernment is not the same thing as wanton discrimination. And expressing disappointment to missionaries (the writers of the piece that sparked all this) who either can’t tell the difference, or are pretending very hard not to, is not living in a “fantasy of some Christian hegemony”.
There was something approaching such a hegemony in the Mediterranean once, you may wish to read about who destroyed most of it the second they were able to.
You are so ridiculously naive on the subject of Islam and Muslims, it’s DISGRACEFUL‼️😡
Your attempting to mislead faithful Christians - in a world where Christians are the MOST PERSECUTED religious group on the planet - is UNFORGIVABLY SINFUL‼️🤬
There is NOTHING OF GOD in Islam. It is NOT a religious faith.
Islam is a violent, oppressive, totalitarian POLITICAL IDEOLOGY OF CONQUEST masquerading as a religion…and you have fallen for their lies, deception and subterfuge known as “taqiyya” !
The beseiged and conquered peoples of Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Kuwait, Jordan, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Qatar, Turkey, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Albania, Kosovo, Azerbaijan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Maldives, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Chad, Gambia, Mali, Mauritania, Mayotte, Niger, Senegal, Nigeria (under immediate threat), Sudan, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Burkina Faso, Comoros, Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast, Djibouti, Eritrea, Somalia, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Western Sahara have learned only too well over the past 12 centuries the PURE EVIL that follows Islam wherever it INVADES.
Bottom line: you cannot support an evil, violent ideology like Islam and be a faithful Christian defending your religion against an EXISTENTIAL THREAT.
Choose a side.
There is no middle ground.
Like it or not, over the past two decades, we have been utterly betrayed by our political “leadership” owned by the satanic globalists.
Every Western nation has been systematically invaded by hordes of depraved, exclusively young and male Islamists with 💯% nefarious intentions towards our Christian faith and our Christian People. They’re patiently waiting in their tens of millions for the signal to commence their slaughter of Christians.
Wake up, you disloyal, unfaithful turncoats!!!
Either you train up, arm up and steel your resolve with the righteousness of our Christian faith or you are TRAITORS…and will be treated as such.
There’s no two ways about it. There is no effete, soft-handed position of compromise. You cannot make nice with bloodthirsty savages hellbent on violent takeover.
I suggest you reflect deeply upon what I have written and reassess your obligations to your fellow Christians in peril…and pick up a damn history book, while you’re at it.
There is NO EXCUSE for this ignorance and divided loyalties‼️😡🤬
The severe restrictions they impose on women—including daughters and sisters—across nearly every aspect of life is profoundly disturbing and deeply troubling
My wife and I have befriended and help out a Palestinian lady and her 3 children since 2019. While I tend to agree with much of this explanation, I also tend to disagree…with much. It seems to gloss over some very concerning issues not only with Islam but Arab culture overall. Great to get differing perspectives for sure.
Thanks for admitting that you don't believe Muslims are people made in the image of God. The good thing about this comments section is the full on admission by most professing Christians that they are in fact, not Christian.
That's some pretty high dudgeon you've elevated yourself into. But it's misplaced. Let's review: You said Muslims were human beings made in the image of God. No one disputes that. My criticism has to do with style. "Full stop" is silly and pretentious. You're trying to paint a commonplace observation as something dramatic. Now let's see you twist that into some sort of bigotry.
How could Muslims NOT be made in the image of God from a Christian point of view? Good luck with finding a Christian who would hold the view that they are not.
On the other hand, from a Muslim point of view (their own), they are not. In fact, the idea is offensive to them (idolatrous). Allah cannot be depicted and has neither form nor children.
Very cool! I've noticed how much Muslims want to hear the Gospel. It's awesome. Everywhere in the Bible tells us to not be afraid, this is His world. He wants His good Word to be spread and Muslims want to and need to hear it. One of my favorite verses ties in so well here: “There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.”
The comment section was predictable. What’s ironic about Islamophobia is that you can say the same thing about Christianity, with its many extremist groups. Christian’s need to remember that fear-mongering is not a virtue.
I read this article because I was alarmed by a famous minister who, after Mamdani’s election, warned his congregation about the rise of Islam by showing a picture of ISIS members, forcing Coptic Christian’s to kneel to be beheaded. Certainly that is not a proper representation of the Islamic faith. Those aren’t their saints…
Anyway, I’m trying to learn more so I can help others think “Christianly” about the so-called rise of Islam in the West.
You’re referring to nominal Muslims. The majority is referring to extreme Muslims. Both have the same Quran and are destined to fulfill it for their vain glory worship of self gratifying rewards, a dead idol and a false eternity. Extreme Christian’s don’t behead unbelievers. Extreme Christian nations aren’t oppressive. Be on the right side of Christ and His Kingdom.
Extreme Christian’s aren’t violent? Are you trolling me? I don’t pretend to know everything, but I’ve experienced life with practicing Muslims. They were very religious, AND non-violent. To call them nominal is to twist the argument to your own advantage. It is possible to stand for Christ, without twisting those of other religions into a caricature.
Everything changes once Muslims become a majority, or even begin to approach a majority. Look at the history of Islam in any country it's conquered, and you'll see. The pattern is so consistent it's almost as if it came out of... a book.
Snark is not a Christian virtue, my sister. I’m not Islamic, so I don’t know. But I’m not naive enough to think that there are no exemplary Muslims that lived virtuous lives.
I apologize for presenting with snark; I was earnest.
This entire religion is fraught with destructive and demeaning ideologies, but if there are true examples of the "saints" that were referenced, I'm interested in hearing about them.
This is a difficult question to answer because we don’t totally understand what Western values are. Islam is already a part of Western society and has been for hundreds of years, so it’s already a component. Muslims have always had a consistent place in American society just like Jewish people, Chinese people, Irish people, Catholics, Protestants, etc. E pluribus unum.
You, as a Christian, should know better than anyone what Western values are because most of them come from the Christian faith. Here are two that are absolutely vital to Western Civilisation and are not shared by Islam:
1) All human life is equally valuable because we are made in God’s image
2) The separation of religion and state (“Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s”).
Whenever I see someone saying “I don’t really know what Western values are” it tells me that person belongs to the school of thought that believes there’s nothing in Western Civilisation that deserves to be saved. It’s a cop out and it just shows that you have no idea how unique Western values are in the evolution of human societies. If Western values are so non existent that you can’t even name them, how is it that they have produced societies that are the envy of the world. Why do you think the entire developing world wants to live in the West? Is that just an accident? Or is it because our Western values (which you doubt even exist) have produced the most extraordinary human progress and the most free and democratic societies the world has ever known. Either you’re very woke or very ill informed.
I’ll give you a hint, the only thing people envy about the west is that they’re at the top of a ruthless inhumane political and economic system of their own creation. The west raped the rest of the world and applied their highfalutin values only to a select few in parts of their empires.
It's been a long time ago now, but while I agree with much of what the missionaries shared about the Arab culture (having spent ten years living in the Middle East myself), I would recommend they read The Hajj by Leon Uris. My time in the Middle East (Saudi Arabia and Dubai; although I traveled extensively through the region) was before my own call to salvation, but I was a keen observer.
An interesting example, although I don't know if it is the same today, was when a foreigner in Saudi Arabia was in a car accident with a local. The first defense from the local, especially if they were at fault, was, "If he (the foreigner) was not here, this would not have happened."
In their defense, I have long decried (even before coming to salvation in Christ) what I saw in Dubai: western women walking along the beach road in bikinis. Those same women would protest when they were accosted by locals or third-country nationals. My response was simple: this is still a Muslim country (despite Dubai being far more "westernized" than Saudi). What you're doing by walking around in a revealing bathing suit is insulting to them and their culture.
This is a crazy world we live in (and getting crazier). Sure, I could point fingers (planks in the eye?) at Muslims, but the fact is, we are all sinners. There is none good, no, not one. Our national, ethnical, socio-political, and religious backgrounds may be vastly different, but in this I can agree: we all need Jesus - John 14:6.
The Christians dying in Nigeria are being killed by Muslims. The grooming gangs in England are primarily Pakistani Muslims, and it is lower class English girls they prey upon. Muslims in Western countries are praying in the streets to show their dominance; praying in the streets isn’t a normal Muslim practice. Muslims in Dearborn, Michigan, are broadcasting the Muslim call to prayer five times a day.
Brigitte Gabrielle of Act For America knows firsthand what happens when Muslims take over a country. The moderate Muslims turn against their former Christian friends, going along with the radicals. Her family in Lebanon hid for years in a bomb shelter in their back yard when the Muslims took over there.
Of course God loves Muslims and wants to save them. Many are converting to Christianity. But God also does not expect us to fool ourselves about their intentions. It is a religion that inspired its adherents to conquer and Islamize all the previously Christian lands in the Middle East and beyond.
I think the authors were clear in their caveat. So let’s say they answered honestly based on their experience (which, btw, mirrors my own, working with Muslim partners in primarily the Gulf), would you say the problem is Islam or culture?
I wasn’t saying they weren’t being honest about their experiences. But their experiences (and yours) do not trump the facts about Islam. I had Muslim neighbors, and they were very nice. But Brigitte Gabriel’s Muslim neighbors were very nice too—until Muslims took over previously Christian Lebanon. The nice Muslims may not want to kill you, but they won’t stop the radicals from killing you. Islam is a culture.
Thank you for your reply. Not that this is particularly top of mind in my daily life, but I find these diametrically opposing images of Islam confounding. But then, I get even more confounded facing the atrocities of many Christian brethren, past and present. The only way I can explain it is by culture; neither stale nor preordained, but perhaps the most challenging to plan and ply according to one’s wish. So, the best I can hope for is for everyone to take a deep breath, and hope that past assimilations to the west is an indication of what to come.
I think we have to go back to origins rather than to what has been done in the name of a religion. Christians look to Jesus. What did He say? How did He live? If people call themselves Christians but behave toward others in ways opposed to how He lived and what He said, they aren’t behaving as Christians. Compare Jesus to Mohammad, how he lived, what he said. As far as I understand, radical Muslims are living out what their founder taught.
Lots of mixed opinions on this article. I found it enlightening. As someone who seems to be growing anti-islam by the day, I think the Holy Spirit led me to this article. I think when we approach anything with a hostile, negative mindset we allow Satan victory over our thoughts. Our thoughts become tainted by his deception. Because these thoughts and feelings are not of God. I read another article this morning that said “everything we do, no matter how pure, is tainted with the stench of sin. It’s the reality of living in a fallen, broken world”. Like the writer of that statement I too am digesting those words. Am I dressing up my dislike of Islam as righteousness when it’s really self righteousness 🤔? I think I am. We are not Saviors. There is only one that transforms hearts. The bible tells us to judge others is to condemn ourselves. This was a great article! I pray for our Christian brothers and sisters preaching the gospel in hostile territories. They face death and persecution by being lights in this world. May I be humble and brave enough to share the gospel with anyone God puts in front of me 🙏🏼
C. S. Lewis called Islam the greatest of the Christian heresies. It’s not wrong to hate what denies Christ. (They accept Him as a prophet but deny His saving power.) Hatred of an ideology that holds so many in its thrall and treats people so cruelly is not sinful. God hates sin, and we should too.
As I made clear in the comment thread, God loves individual Muslims and wants them saved. But we do not have to extend our love to the ideology holding them captive.
I hear you Kay. Thanks for the response.
This is correct.
Why should replace tolerance with ignorance.
Totally agree. Shook my head probably 25 times reading this. I grew up as an mk in the Philippines
Right on.
That's it .
A lot of hard truths were left unsaid here. I know you mean well, but very unhelpful article.
Ditto precisely. Unfortunately, they skated right by some of the really knotty issues of free speech, even questioning why we would want to promote western values? What would a moderate Muslim do if someone burns the Quran? Or draw a cartoon of Mohammad? If the authors can’t defend basic free speech values then they’re not really doing much to solve this problem.
This is just ridiculous, what would Christian’s do if a Muslim burned a Bible?
Agreed - it portrays Christianity as harmless
Well, that's an interesting comment. Could you perhaps draw that out a little bit and explain how you feel that Christianity is harmful?
Pogroms for one
I haven't really studied that issue. Was that something that the Church did on an official basis, or were the pogroms more done by certain individuals who were not acting like Christ?
Pogroms have nothing to do with the church.
Read about them here:
https://www.britannica.com/topic/pogrom
Colonialism? Forced conversions and enslavement.
Neither one of which is Christian practice. Honestly, with the history of people who have done absolute horrors while wearing the name of Christ, it is a wonder that anyone seriously considers Christianity as a legitimate religion or wishes to convert to it.
Whoever wrote this post is delusional
Or dishonest. I doubt they have ever visited a Muslim country. Perhaps the text is AI generated, since none of the "eight missionaries" apparently have names...
"So, I reached out to a missionary who follows my page, who I know has spent years in ministry to Muslims in Palestine. She, along with 7 other missionaries in MENA (Middle East and North Africa) nations, was kind enough to put together a document responding to common questions".
Missionaries are all about putting themselves on the line, so why this strange reticence? Doesn't check out.
They lived and served in Muslim countries. They are missionaries.
I am a missionary serving Muslims. I agree with this article.
The author of this article must have paid jizia and is doing dawah
I think their perspective of Muslims living in a Muslim dominant society shows they don’t understand how Islam behaves when it’s in the minority.
I live and serve a Muslim minority group in Asia. The minorities here are amazing, kind and welcoming. I hope that helps.
Sounds very feasible
Sorry, but speaking as a Christian this article is naive and foolish in the extreme. Here in Britain we are seeing whole towns and cities being taken over by Muslims, who are meanwhile in the process of infiltrating the political and judicial systems to work them in their favour. The truth about Islam is that it is really nothing more than sacralised tribalism with a view to ultimate political domination of the planet. Within that purview, literally ANYTHING is admissible so long as it further promotes the cause of Islam. This includes the systemic rape and abuse of vulnerable young girls, as we have now been seeing for decades across the (dis-)United Kingdom.
Of course, all of this is not to say that ALL Muslims are nasty pieces of work, or to deny that they can be reached with the gospel. But as the Bible says, let us be 'wise as serpents and innocent as doves'. The whole of the Middle East and North Africa was at one time the epicentre of the Christian world. Then the murderous Muslims came and took over, threatening to kill everyone who did not submit to their will. This same dynamic is at play in our world today, and particularly as the West has foolishly opened up its borders to the world.
You don't need to hate Muslims to realise there is a real existential threat at play here. Unless American is very careful, it could be become just as desperate as Europe presently is on account of 'the religion of peace'. As we have witnessed here, it doesn't take very long at all to get in a serious amount of trouble. All you need to do is close your eyes to the horrible demonic reality of the situation.
Muslims are civilizing the UK
How exactly? By raping thousands of young girls? By conducting repeated acts of terror? By marrying first cousins to each other? By female genital mutilation? By widely disrupting civic life with mass anti-semitic marches and protests? By bullying and attacking Jews? By covering women head to foot in black robes? I'm truly interested to know your answer.
You’ve worked yourself into a lather! Does Andrew raping kids show you the issue is English culture?
Not exactly, no. And not only have you blatantly ignored all the charges against the 'religion of peace', you haven't even begun to explain how Muslims are 'civilising' the UK.
Opposing Robinson and Farage
So, opposing those who oppose the mass importation of those who are actively destroying Britain is, in fact, an act of generosity towards Britain?! Is that what you are saying?
Name me an Islamic state that is not a third world… I’ll wait
Turkey, UAE, Morocco, Saudi, Iran, and Palestine if Israel would stop sabotaging any attempt to reconstruct by the rightful occupants.
Rightful occupants are israelites. That is, if they were to have the same God as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
A conservative moving the goalposts? Typical
Brunei
Do you know what third world means?
“The second thing we want you to know is that Muslims are not out to get you.” Tell that to the Texas family who lost several family members to a Muslim father’s honor killing spree. It’s time to get real about Islam, especially in regard to desire for hegemony and violence towards Jews.
Judaism is just as evil as Islam, if not more so.
That's Zionism, which is not the same as Judaism. Growing up in Cleveland, Ohio, I used to cut lawns for people down our street. Our Jewish neighbor, who escaped Poland before the holocaust, but lost family in it, used to give me a lemonade after I cut his lawn. I remember one time the TV was on and coverage of the 1973 Yom Kippur war was on and he said "I wish they'd never created Israel. Jews had a homeland already, the USA."
Several Islamic-terror attacks have happened in the 6 months since I left this comment. I’m sad it’s aged so well.
Having been a missionary myself, I’m hesitant to tell people living in a particular country I’ve never been to that I know the people better than they do (responding to some of the comments here).
I moved Stateside a few years ago and have been working at an international student ministry that is highly involved with MENA students. Some of them have become my dearest friends, and a number of them have even chosen to follow Jesus! So, so many of them have shared experiences with me that match exactly what this post is sharing. They even keep asking me to visit their countries and listing people back in their countries who would love to host me—even though one country in particular that I’ve been invited to multiple times is literally impossible for an American to travel to right now!
Another friend (from a country who spells the name “Mohammad” and not “Mohammed”—referencing the post) was beaten nearly to death by government officials for refusing to acknowledge the Muslim God, and another friend who chose to follow Jesus had to escape as a refugee to a different Asian country in fear of his life. I once attended a baptism of a Christian who couldn’t let us record or take photos of the event due to potential backlash back home.
It’s true that most of the people that my friends have encountered in their home countries are incredibly generous and would LOVE to open their homes to foreigners who might happen to be Christians. It’s also true that the extremists and those who pledge themselves to following the violent verses of the Quran are ruthless in their cruelty. Those two facts are not mutually exclusive. I think the best way to understand Muslim culture is to befriend Muslims and ask them questions about their cultures. That would require Christians to go out and show Gospel love to Muslims, though—something that many Westerners are too afraid to do. It’s a shame.
I do think that the authors of the article said that they knew Muslims in certain countries and that they know that they do not know ALL Muslims from all countries
Right right! ☺️
So many untruths here I can’t believe it comes from a missionary.
I didn’t read any untruths here. I’m a missionary. If you disagree with someone, that’s fine. But you don’t need to call them liars.
Really ? Go ask the Christians in Nigeria Sudan and Burkina Faso how it works for them. Islam must dominate there is no
Peaceful coexistence
Two things can be true at once. There can be places with peaceful coexistence and there can be places where there isn’t. If someone dies of cancer, we don’t say it can’t be cured. We say that was a particular case. We need to avoid blaming all Muslims for the sins of other Muslims. We don’t do that with white people. When a Christian killed Muslims in New Zealand, we didn’t blame other Christians. When the Norwegian shooter killed all those students in the name of radical Christianity, we didn’t blame all Christians.
Things are complex and nuanced and grey and messy. But we don’t fight flesh and blood, but principalities. We are called to love our enemies. We are called to preach the gospel. The fruit of the Spirit does not say anything about anger at Muslims. Jesus came to save the world, not to condemn it. Yet, the application of these verses seems to stop at Muslims.
We forgot that the early church was terribly persecuted. The political leaders condemned Christians. The locals killed Christians. They responded in love. They prayed for the leaders persecuting them.
I specifically serve a Muslim minority group because God has called me to love them and share the gospel with them. I think that is probably a more Biblical response to the issue of Islam than writing vitriolic comments on Substack. But maybe I’m wrong.
All I am saying is actions speak louder than words and actions of the ideology speaks for itself.
AI slop, probably.
“We don’t totally understand what Western values are.”
Yes, that was deeply apparent.
Western values are...making tons of money, being prideful, unrestrained sex even outside of marriage, greed, seeking comfort, etc, etc. The stats on these things are absolutely no different for secular Americans than for those who claim to be Christian.
Western values are fluctuating and are as much secular and atheistic as they are Christian, pay attention to the culture around you instead of some fantasy of western Christian hegemony.
Hurricanes fluctuate massively, we can still identify them.
They (western values) are still far, far closer to a known and identifiable body of Something, than they are a formless, nameless fog of Anything.
You correctly pointed out several of their attributes already.
The author’s claimed ignorance is worrying if honest; infuriating if feigned; odious if deliberate; and malevolent if truly disingenuous.
God calling us to love our neighbors individually, does not absolve us from the responsibility to examine their historical behavior realistically, and act appropriately.
While I am grateful that the missionary authors of the piece have found warm connections with individual Muslims (as I have in my life), like a scriptural verse taken in context of a chapter, and chapter in context of its book— this writing takes place in the context of 1400 years of very real history.
Perhaps the authors have a splinter in their eye, while I write squinting around the plank in mine.
But at least my eyes are open.
More importantly however, Youre also guilty of taking Islamic extremists out of context to characterize Islamic culture as a whole. They’ve built empires, produced works of art, mathematics, and philosophy to rival the traditions of the west.
It isn’t clear where western culture is headed any more than where Islamic culture is headed in terms of their values. In practice though, Muslims are far more likely to uphold the conservative values Christian’s espouse than American voters are as a whole.
Christian’s like to ignore that the product of their philosophical tradition is as much nihilism as it is modern Catholicism or evangelicalism. Just like eastern cultures products vary from existential Islam to Eastern Orthodoxy.
Your characterization of Muslims lacks nuance and perspective. Anthropology when reduced to slogans and pithy baseless arguments is at best ignorance and at worst thinly veiled racism; things that the west does exceptionally well.
“Amazing, Every word of what you just said is wrong.”
Leaving aside the fact that I have minor to major disagreements with literally every sentence you just wrote, I’ll respond to what I think is at the heart of this:
Being bound and determined to reject the greatness of your own inherited culture because you cannot stomach the stains born by the hands of men who could not remain spotless while building it for your benefit, will not endear you to a culture that will place a boot on your neck the second they have the power to do so.
-Not a true concern in the US, but far beyond a hypothetical in Europe-
You, and people who you temporarily agree with politically or socially, are not better people for being reflexively accepting of, or at least willing to provide immediate false equivalency to anything that is not your own culture.
It is not pithy, phobic, baseless, racist, and certainly not ignorant to look at the results of population level adherence to Islamic doctrine since the establishment of the Caliphate and be critical of Christians who act wise as doves and as harmless as serpents in their attempts to chide the sheep as they welcome the wolves.
From Mecca and Medina, to Yarmuke, Jerusalem, Iberia, Vienna, and Constantinople, with a thousand battlegrounds in-between; there is a pattern that repeats itself when Muslims take the tenets of their faith seriously.
Of course Muslims produce art (with no graven image, of course), and love their children, and cook delicious meals for themselves and strangers. They are as precious in the sight of God as you or I.
But for every Imam preaching peaceful assimilation, every “radical” cleric has more scripture, and more examples from Mohamed's own life, to justify a mode of behavior that gives transcendent license to the most barbarically tribal impulses. The rewards of Paradise are sufficient testament to this by themselves alone. This is an inherent problem to the ideology of Islam itself. Compounded by the fact that revisionist Sharia scholars can attempt to say what they will, but Apostasy awaits those who would even suggest that theirs is not the Final and Unalterable Revelation.
Exercising discernment is not the same thing as wanton discrimination. And expressing disappointment to missionaries (the writers of the piece that sparked all this) who either can’t tell the difference, or are pretending very hard not to, is not living in a “fantasy of some Christian hegemony”.
There was something approaching such a hegemony in the Mediterranean once, you may wish to read about who destroyed most of it the second they were able to.
Sorry but this is pure taqqiya coming from a “Christian”.
You are so ridiculously naive on the subject of Islam and Muslims, it’s DISGRACEFUL‼️😡
Your attempting to mislead faithful Christians - in a world where Christians are the MOST PERSECUTED religious group on the planet - is UNFORGIVABLY SINFUL‼️🤬
There is NOTHING OF GOD in Islam. It is NOT a religious faith.
Islam is a violent, oppressive, totalitarian POLITICAL IDEOLOGY OF CONQUEST masquerading as a religion…and you have fallen for their lies, deception and subterfuge known as “taqiyya” !
The beseiged and conquered peoples of Syria, Palestine, Egypt, Lebanon, Iraq, Iran, Algeria, Libya, Tunisia, Morocco, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Kuwait, Jordan, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Qatar, Turkey, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Albania, Kosovo, Azerbaijan, Indonesia, Malaysia, Brunei, Maldives, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Chad, Gambia, Mali, Mauritania, Mayotte, Niger, Senegal, Nigeria (under immediate threat), Sudan, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Burkina Faso, Comoros, Sierra Leone, Ivory Coast, Djibouti, Eritrea, Somalia, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan, Uzbekistan and Western Sahara have learned only too well over the past 12 centuries the PURE EVIL that follows Islam wherever it INVADES.
Bottom line: you cannot support an evil, violent ideology like Islam and be a faithful Christian defending your religion against an EXISTENTIAL THREAT.
Choose a side.
There is no middle ground.
Like it or not, over the past two decades, we have been utterly betrayed by our political “leadership” owned by the satanic globalists.
Every Western nation has been systematically invaded by hordes of depraved, exclusively young and male Islamists with 💯% nefarious intentions towards our Christian faith and our Christian People. They’re patiently waiting in their tens of millions for the signal to commence their slaughter of Christians.
Wake up, you disloyal, unfaithful turncoats!!!
Either you train up, arm up and steel your resolve with the righteousness of our Christian faith or you are TRAITORS…and will be treated as such.
There’s no two ways about it. There is no effete, soft-handed position of compromise. You cannot make nice with bloodthirsty savages hellbent on violent takeover.
I suggest you reflect deeply upon what I have written and reassess your obligations to your fellow Christians in peril…and pick up a damn history book, while you’re at it.
There is NO EXCUSE for this ignorance and divided loyalties‼️😡🤬
I don’t think they said, “Yey, for Islam! We should be Muslims now.” They said Muslim individuals can be nice people.
The severe restrictions they impose on women—including daughters and sisters—across nearly every aspect of life is profoundly disturbing and deeply troubling
My wife and I have befriended and help out a Palestinian lady and her 3 children since 2019. While I tend to agree with much of this explanation, I also tend to disagree…with much. It seems to gloss over some very concerning issues not only with Islam but Arab culture overall. Great to get differing perspectives for sure.
It may be just a personal quirk, but whenever someone writes/says “Full stop”, I stop reading/listening.
Thanks for admitting that you don't believe Muslims are people made in the image of God. The good thing about this comments section is the full on admission by most professing Christians that they are in fact, not Christian.
That's some pretty high dudgeon you've elevated yourself into. But it's misplaced. Let's review: You said Muslims were human beings made in the image of God. No one disputes that. My criticism has to do with style. "Full stop" is silly and pretentious. You're trying to paint a commonplace observation as something dramatic. Now let's see you twist that into some sort of bigotry.
How could Muslims NOT be made in the image of God from a Christian point of view? Good luck with finding a Christian who would hold the view that they are not.
On the other hand, from a Muslim point of view (their own), they are not. In fact, the idea is offensive to them (idolatrous). Allah cannot be depicted and has neither form nor children.
This is funny
Very cool! I've noticed how much Muslims want to hear the Gospel. It's awesome. Everywhere in the Bible tells us to not be afraid, this is His world. He wants His good Word to be spread and Muslims want to and need to hear it. One of my favorite verses ties in so well here: “There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment, and the one who fears is not perfected in love.”
The comment section was predictable. What’s ironic about Islamophobia is that you can say the same thing about Christianity, with its many extremist groups. Christian’s need to remember that fear-mongering is not a virtue.
I read this article because I was alarmed by a famous minister who, after Mamdani’s election, warned his congregation about the rise of Islam by showing a picture of ISIS members, forcing Coptic Christian’s to kneel to be beheaded. Certainly that is not a proper representation of the Islamic faith. Those aren’t their saints…
Anyway, I’m trying to learn more so I can help others think “Christianly” about the so-called rise of Islam in the West.
You’re referring to nominal Muslims. The majority is referring to extreme Muslims. Both have the same Quran and are destined to fulfill it for their vain glory worship of self gratifying rewards, a dead idol and a false eternity. Extreme Christian’s don’t behead unbelievers. Extreme Christian nations aren’t oppressive. Be on the right side of Christ and His Kingdom.
Extreme Christian’s aren’t violent? Are you trolling me? I don’t pretend to know everything, but I’ve experienced life with practicing Muslims. They were very religious, AND non-violent. To call them nominal is to twist the argument to your own advantage. It is possible to stand for Christ, without twisting those of other religions into a caricature.
Everything changes once Muslims become a majority, or even begin to approach a majority. Look at the history of Islam in any country it's conquered, and you'll see. The pattern is so consistent it's almost as if it came out of... a book.
Actually there’s a long and glorious history of extremist Christian’s raping and torturing and murdering other people over differences of belief.
Incidentally, who are some well-renowned Islamic saints? Apart from the pedophile "prophet" Muhammad?
Snark is not a Christian virtue, my sister. I’m not Islamic, so I don’t know. But I’m not naive enough to think that there are no exemplary Muslims that lived virtuous lives.
I apologize for presenting with snark; I was earnest.
This entire religion is fraught with destructive and demeaning ideologies, but if there are true examples of the "saints" that were referenced, I'm interested in hearing about them.
Rumi?
He is not "a saint". Islam doesn't have "saints" like Christianity does.
The veneration of Hussein (Muhammad's grandson) is huge among shiites. There is an islamic term for saint: a wali.
This is really a terrible answer:
5) Are “Western” values and Islam compatible?
This is a difficult question to answer because we don’t totally understand what Western values are. Islam is already a part of Western society and has been for hundreds of years, so it’s already a component. Muslims have always had a consistent place in American society just like Jewish people, Chinese people, Irish people, Catholics, Protestants, etc. E pluribus unum.
You, as a Christian, should know better than anyone what Western values are because most of them come from the Christian faith. Here are two that are absolutely vital to Western Civilisation and are not shared by Islam:
1) All human life is equally valuable because we are made in God’s image
2) The separation of religion and state (“Give unto Caesar what is Caesar’s”).
Whenever I see someone saying “I don’t really know what Western values are” it tells me that person belongs to the school of thought that believes there’s nothing in Western Civilisation that deserves to be saved. It’s a cop out and it just shows that you have no idea how unique Western values are in the evolution of human societies. If Western values are so non existent that you can’t even name them, how is it that they have produced societies that are the envy of the world. Why do you think the entire developing world wants to live in the West? Is that just an accident? Or is it because our Western values (which you doubt even exist) have produced the most extraordinary human progress and the most free and democratic societies the world has ever known. Either you’re very woke or very ill informed.
Is that why the rest of the world is desperately trying to get here?
I’ll give you a hint, the only thing people envy about the west is that they’re at the top of a ruthless inhumane political and economic system of their own creation. The west raped the rest of the world and applied their highfalutin values only to a select few in parts of their empires.
It's been a long time ago now, but while I agree with much of what the missionaries shared about the Arab culture (having spent ten years living in the Middle East myself), I would recommend they read The Hajj by Leon Uris. My time in the Middle East (Saudi Arabia and Dubai; although I traveled extensively through the region) was before my own call to salvation, but I was a keen observer.
An interesting example, although I don't know if it is the same today, was when a foreigner in Saudi Arabia was in a car accident with a local. The first defense from the local, especially if they were at fault, was, "If he (the foreigner) was not here, this would not have happened."
In their defense, I have long decried (even before coming to salvation in Christ) what I saw in Dubai: western women walking along the beach road in bikinis. Those same women would protest when they were accosted by locals or third-country nationals. My response was simple: this is still a Muslim country (despite Dubai being far more "westernized" than Saudi). What you're doing by walking around in a revealing bathing suit is insulting to them and their culture.
This is a crazy world we live in (and getting crazier). Sure, I could point fingers (planks in the eye?) at Muslims, but the fact is, we are all sinners. There is none good, no, not one. Our national, ethnical, socio-political, and religious backgrounds may be vastly different, but in this I can agree: we all need Jesus - John 14:6.